USAMTS-->USAMO

[zefuri]

should the above be allowed?

[stupidityismygam]

well currently it isn't and it definitely shouldn't

under the current system usamts->AIME and gives you 100 index pts (which is not good)

the problems and grading of USAMTS are way too easy to merit qualification to USAMO using solely the contest...

its current system is very good, even though the index points they give you are very shabby....

I think it would be better to give about 120 index points personally, but still it works

The point of the contest is to give people an introduction to proofs, while the USAMO is supposed to test your mathematical ability and advanced proof writing (completely differnet expectations)

USAMO also scorns brute forcing on problems and gives a lot more respect and credit to the elegant solution...

USAMTS on the other hand, allows brute forcing actually suggests brute forcing (if necessary)...the only perk of having an elegant solution is the potential of a commended solution, which are few and far between

Moral of the sto-ry, USAMTS != USAMO and thus should not lead to USAMO

[Quelloquialism]

[zefuri]

but you can still get a 7 with a brute force solution i think USAMTS should not be allowed to USAMO but surely carry a larger weight/be more rewarding than qualifying through amc cuz it has more time/effort

[stupidityismygam]

[zefuri]

I believe there should be some solution although I do not want to sound unthankful for the CAMC's kindness already, but there needs to be some form where we can qualify for USAMO purely by proofwriting without overwhelming the CAMC with the number of participants becausae the purpose of the AIME/AMC is to shrink the field of participants to qualify for MOSP so CAMC wont get killed by the number of proofs.

Maybe it could be like TML where its a weekly/monthly event where we are proctored for a specific amount of time and send our solution in.

[stupidityismygam]

[zefuri]

I do not expect the change of USAMTS since I don't know who is directing/sponsering that competition.

I am just proposing a system similar to it with the time restraints reasonable enough to be proctored such as like maybe 1 question per time because 4.5 hours after school is just unreasonable due to homework clubs sports etc.

[stupidityismygam]

[zefuri]

Oh...yeah probably not Richard R seems to be in like every math competition... I am considering actually doing the USAMTS next year because this year i only browsed the problems, but i learned that sufficent feedback for grading is valuable and rare. Are those the only two popular proof based tests (including USAMO althoguh you have to qualify)

[stupidityismygam]

well, Mandelbrot has a team proof section, which is pretty good


and then there is Rice and TX A&M which have power teams....which helps increase your thinking abstractly...

that is about all i can think of...

actually, NAT has 1 little section too for a team proof thing....but i dont know how good it is

[zefuri]

Rice's power round...about that i dont consider that sufficient feedback if you go



Clearly,

QED

^worth 4 out of 20 points =P.

Oh uhh side note: why do people call it A&#;
its a shame i have never taken Mandelbrot/seen a test before just never had an oppurtunity

[stupidityismygam]

when you enter the & sign the randomness follows...see look

&&&&&&&&&&&&

[zefuri]

and 1 hour is hardly enough time to do real proofs

[stupidityismygam]

[Quelloquialism]

[zefuri]

25-30 being Red MOSP or Blue MOSP because generally for Red it is about 1.5-2 problems and Blue is 3? well at least last year the scores will probably be increased due to the increased field. I can see that USAMTS allows people to figure out problems that are hinged on a particular theorem(especially geometry) throguh the computer.

[stupidityismygam]

[zefuri]

I dont think...its the program that makes us not beat the russians i think its the education system and lifestyle and anti math style that makes us lose. and china has a billion people

[stupidityismygam]

true true...the United States has completely stupified its material....with TAKS study and No Child Left Behind...

people like Richard have tried to change this with their institutions...but they are still struggling with filling in the large gap...

if school actually taught kids stuff, then the United States might actually have a chance...

independent study is good and all...but we have a lot fewer smart people in the United States, compared to the countries that care about education and actually challenge the kids

[zefuri]

i think we honestly need to accelerate kids in math i mean we barely do any in elementary school besides simple arithmetic and we could at least teach fractions and one variable equations by middle school and also in 1st or 2nd grade give brain teasers and such to encourage childrens problem solving abilities. Also, we need a geometry 2 because our geometry is horrid and analytical is not even taught.

[stupidityismygam]

[zefuri]

I believe that iono about your district but we have to ELA periods in middle school at least which could be better spent by lengthening the classes

Also,precal is a repeat of alg II with harder stuff

Basically, the only reason people are left behind are that they just practice for a test then forget but thats like the most important part or something like rationalizing radicals or something and complex fractions etc those are important in solving other things so a cumulative test is definitely in order.

reading sphereland is not essential in american education im sorry

english/soc st can be cut back on

math and science are where its at and labs in elem/mid school are lame since they are just like ooh pretty colors iim learning science.

i think building a strong foundation should be important in math with challenges too

[stupidityismygam]

this is a sad discussion, because we keep on agreeing...


America has raised its kids to know the stuff for the test and then promptly forget it...

this is most prominently shown in the dumb, yet hilarious show Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?

in case you havent seen it, basically adults go thorugh elementary school questions and get absolutely owned by them....like what is 2*5....yeah it is sad...

english is semi important, but the exten we spend on it is ridiculous...nobody cares about Shakespeare....

then Science is cut down to once again Leave No Child Behind and get ready for TAKS...

American schooling has doomed our future and yet they wonder why we have to rely on the indians for our technological needs....

outsourcing has become the only way that this nation is able to keep up with the production boost of other nations...

the sad part is, that our government is absolutely clueless and supporting these heinous crimes against the education of kids...

[zefuri]

i mean we learn extremely trivial things in middle school and elementary school before where we could be learning lets say bio or something that doesnt need a tremendous amount of mathematical background but is basically memorizing we could also be learning geology or something random but in depth is what we are missing rather than covering the surface of everything.

but i do have to say americans are better at building things...and creative projects...

we also have a negative connotation towards school and work from society which makes us stray away from studying and such

i mean coding isnt that hard and customer service in india isnt hard either we are just lazy and dont learn anything even code well enough to just code a program given the algorithm

like i think we should teach grammar and vocab deeply and writing too but reading all these books and analyzing the crap out of them to help us "further understand and appreciate" ironically does the opposite